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Paul J October 30, 2008 11:48 AM

All very laudable, but how many people have storage for 15 spare wheels and tyres?  If your taxi driver mate is actually swapping tyres over onto the same rims he may potentially be saving his life but he does need to get one first.

m_bowl October 30, 2008 12:48 PM

I was thinking the same driving home in the snow the other night. Having spent some time driving around in mid-Sweden last year where the uncleared snow was well over a metre thick, I can really vouch for how effective winter tyres (non-studded variety) are - I simply would not have got up some of the inclinces with summer tyres.

A friend who lives in the south of Sweden where the climate is similar to the UK would leave the car at home at the first sign of snow unless it was fitted with winter tyres.

Changing people's mindset would be difficult here though!

TegTypeR October 30, 2008 1:38 PM

The biggest issue we have in the UK is culture, we want one product to do all things at the cheapest price possible.

My day job is selling tools and we see the same attitude in this industry.  For example....

The average UK work person demands that he / she purchases a cordless drill, it should be a "Combi" machine (one that incorporates a drill, screwdriver facility and hammer drill facility).  This way one tool does three jobs all be it in a compromised package.  In Europe, the attitude is different and a German work person will purchase three separate machine and get a better piece of equipment to boot.

Unlike tyres though, power tools are rarely a life or death decision.

theop October 30, 2008 1:44 PM

Just to add a small detail: In Germany, Sweden, Denmark and Switzerland that I know of (as well as other countries that I don't), winter tyres is the law if you want to drive on motorways (switzerland) or the law full stop if in Denmark for example. They give you a 3 weeks phase in period when they are lenient (like an expired tax disc more or less) and then if you get stopped on the wrong tyres its something like £90 fine, no buts...

For us here I think the main concern is the fact they are expensive and the process too cumbersome (in process as well as storage terms - unless you have an estate or a car big enough to take them to the garage, then you ve got to change them yourselves at home...) and the fact that these tyres wear out very quickly especially if you do 2-3k miles at 90mph on dry motorways....  So for tha sake of 5 difficult days per year in the uk (and 5 difficult days per 3 years for example in Athens) its just not worth it me reckons...

I Denmark and Switzerland there are special tyre depos (like the kwikfit here), only they are happy to STORE a set (or 5) for you while you are having the summer/winter ones on... they are organised... Can you imagine the same process happening here? Exactly..

In greece they do not even import winter tyres... Most tyre shops would not have seen a pair ever...

AV October 30, 2008 2:51 PM

I have a set of winter tyres for my Legacy. When I bought the car I purchased an extra set of wheels and ordered some Nokian winter tyres from a German internet supplier (tyre vendors here are often unaware that such tyres even exist). A local tyre shop fitted and balanced them.

The spare set lives under the bed!

I take the car to a tyre shop to change the wheels and balance them in the spring, and again in the autumn. They clearly think I am a bit mad. They charge me £30 each time.

The Nokians are excellent. I have just put them back on for the winter. They grip astonishingly well even on sheet ice. We should use these tyres in the UK. We have plenty of ice here, sometimes snow, and in such conditions winter tyres perform to a far higher standard than all-season tyres. It is true that we often accept a cut price compromise here. Grip is not something you should compromise on; forgo the metallic paint or the leather trim instead.  

Tyre wear is, of course, shared between the two sets of tyres so the original set is lasting very well. The winter tyres do not wear excessively, which has surprised me.

Worth the bother? I think so. Your car might be a sophisticated 4WD, ESP, ABS equipped techfest, but you are ultimately still dependent on 4 small patches of contact with the road for your safe onward progress.

You wouldn't go hiking wearing flip-flops, would you?

brompton October 30, 2008 3:13 PM

My daughter's car also has two sets of wheels and tyres in Connecticut USA with similar benefits.  They do have more snow (most handypersons have a pick up with snow plough to earn a bit of cash clearing driveways) but I agree that we get plenty of ice. Americans in suburbia have big garages and/or basements for storage. Perhaps some of those new storage depots could team up with Quickfit.

dillonsamben October 30, 2008 4:30 PM

Tyres, sad as it might seem, are something that were part of my life blood for many a long year before I made the decision to say sod it all and retire very early for a rural life driving an old banger in France.

Winter tyres are of course a legal necessity in a lot of countries throughout Europe and they should very arguably, be so in more exposed areas of the UK as well, but to have to consider fitting them to all vehicles would be going somewhat over the top in my most humble of opinions.

What really should be on the agenda is to get the car manufacturers to fit the most sensible types of tyre for a certain type of vehicle rather than the marketing men getting their collective way and fitting some quite ludicrous width of tyre with an ultra low profile (that rides like a broken legged dog) and a racy looking tread pattern on the most mundane of vehicles…………. Simply because it helps to sell the blessed vehicle in the first place.  How many road tests have you read where the tester criticises the ride ?

The biggest problem with all types of driving is the total ineptitude of the vast majority of drivers and that is why the UK, most especially, has such massive problems when a small flurry of snow just so happens to fall.

Slim San October 30, 2008 7:36 PM

Unfortunately too many UK drivers are poor in anything but ideal conditions but physics isn't on their side when it gets cold.

The tread compounds used in 'summer' tyres harden when it gets cold - below about 7degC - and therefore provide less grip . Combine this with icy conditions and you've got a problem of control for many drivers.

The weather in many parts of Europe is much more seasonal and it make sense to drive on winter tyres for the months when it will be cold/icy/covered in snow. In the UK we'd not really know when to fit them......

The same problem occurs in northern Japan, with a large part of the counrty covered in snow for many months. The dealers and tyre depot also offer the same storage facility referred to earlier. If you think it would be a problem to find a place to store your 'other set' in the UK, you want to try and do the same in a typical Japanese appartment !

Vectra32 October 30, 2008 7:59 PM

Some of the comments made about the legal requirements in Europe are not entirely correct. The following link seems accurate:

www.etyres.co.uk/winter-tyres-law

A lot of Europeans use simple steel rims for their winter tyres because of the salt corrosion, and save their flashy alloys for the summer.

macaroni October 31, 2008 9:03 AM

We could go to the bother of fitting winter tyres in the UK to prevent some of the carnage that happens every winter, OR just slow the *** down!

I use part of the M25 on my daily commute and in streaming wet conditions I still see many a, usually German, car tailgating or undertaking and squeezing back into the fast lane.

Fine, on a dry, sunny day, hammer along at 100 in the outside lane, but as soon as the temp approaches zero and the rain falls, time to take a chill pill and slow right down.

machin03 October 31, 2008 9:14 AM

I live in Northern Italy and have for the past 10 years had winter tyres fitted on both mine and my wife's car. I find then indispensible (even on my wife's SUV) in winter especially when we go skiing in the Alps. I have the good fortune of having my "tire garage" store all my sets of tyres, both in the summer (winter tyres) and in the winter (normal tyres). This service is also an advantage to the garage as it ensures that a customer always returns to have whatever service is required regarding tyres (purchase, rotation, periodical checks etc)

theop November 1, 2008 11:44 AM

You are right Vectra32 I was not entirely correct wrt legal requirements....

So indeed in Switzerland it is not law to have winter tyres, but "highly advised". "highly advised" for the Swiss means you 'd better not be caught without and that goes as a mentality in everything... From parenting and schools to all industries and professional relationships....

Ahhh, and if you have an accident in the winter with a summer tyre, your insurance is void (and driving with a void insurance is actually illegal)

Ahh #2 and if you get stopped on the motorway without winter tyres (to the leniency of the individual policeman) you are very likely to get fined for careless driving... (CHF 160 = ca 70 quid).

In the past it was the same as the seatbelt situation... You were more likely to get off with a warning... The last 5-7 years there has been a tremendous increase of motorway pile ups in Switzerland and enforcement is getting more serious... (Police blame all sorts of things, lack of winter tyres inclusive, but commonsensical press reports blame all the bl**dy toys that modern luxury cars have which distract the driver)...

Thats all..

Peter Cavellini November 5, 2008 9:48 PM

Tell me where the snow and ice is and i'll buy some snow tyres!. In this country it makes no fiscal sense to buy winter tyres, we may have one bad winter in ten, we might have a week of icey roads but thats about it.No winter tyres would be a waste of money and anyway tyres these days aren't cheap my tyres currently cast me £260 each! so you think i'm going to have a thousand pounds worth of rubber sitting in my garage just incase it snows not to mentio the effort to change them ect.ect...don't be a clot winter tyres no chance!  

eugy November 17, 2008 7:37 PM

Hi,

I live in Norway at present where the use of winter tyres is compulsory (and the fines very steep), and just as well. Stavanger's climate is similar to that of say Scotland and even though it doesn't snow or get icy every day, we find our winter tyres absolutely indispensible!

Only a couple of days ago a friend of mine got killed in Lincolnshire at 0630 in the morning on a country road. She was 29. Was it because of ice on the road? We don't know all the details yet, but the way the car spinned and went off onto the side of oncoming traffic makes it very likely. All the money in the world will not bring our beloved friend back, but using tyres with better grip for those unpredictable weather conditions is a very small price to pay to keep drivers safe.

Let's not be shortsighted and think only of the cost and/or storage issues, important as they may be. I can assure you that there is nothing worse than getting the dreaded call/email to tell you that a person you love is dead - and we all know fine well that many car accidents at this time of the year could have been avoided through the use of winter tyres. The newer "all year" versions are quite reliable and less damaging to the roads.

I hope the UK government sees sense and aligns its policies with those of many other European countries. This REALLY can be a life or death issue...

bazza111 November 28, 2008 6:28 PM

I fitted winter tyres to the drive wheels of my Fiesta and it was refused an M.O.T. because the garage said they were illegal in the U.K.

bazza111 December 8, 2008 9:16 PM

Hi there,

What exactly makes a (winter tyre), is it just deeper tread and softer compound, or do they have metal spikes in to help grip on ice and snow, or is that an ice tyre?

DPB December 16, 2008 6:31 PM

Try the Nokian WR or WR G2 - a superb Finnish made tyre biased heavily towards winter use but specified for year round fitment unlike normal winter tyres (i.e not to soft that they'll wear out during the summer!). I've had a set of these on an old 525i for the last 4 years and have just got hold of another 4 now these are down to 3mm. Fantastic tyres in the snow and ice but the real suprise is just how unbelievably good they are in the wet particularly with plenty of tread from new (8mm). Do a search and you'll find plenty of evidence of just how good they are.

Obviously a full winter tyre would be even better but I've no desire to have to mess about changing tyres just for a UK winter.  These are an excellent compromise, try them and I guarantee you will not be dissappointed nor be caught out as most UK drivers seem to be in these days of fat low profile 'fashion' tyres which are virtually useless in the snow!